Lastly, I took a look at Queens Plaza and with the addition of two new switches I finally figured out how G trains can terminate there instead! For the former elevated railway line, see, Yard tracks & provision for Bronx expansion, Note that this is a list of New York City Subway lines, which are the physical infrastructure over which. Urban Engineers of New York, D. DeKalb needs signal upgrades anyway so that could be part of Phase 3 when 2nd Ave is connected to the Manhattan Bridge. Planners today are scared that they can’t get anything built that they don’t even bother to design their projects to full potential. Capital Program Briefing May 2017", "Finding of No Significant Impact (FONSI) for the Second Avenue Subway Phase 2", "Milestone reached in Second Avenue subway project", "New center gives glimpse of Second Avenue Subway's future", "Second Ave. subway on track to open in 2016: MTA", "Second Avenue Subway expansion to be added to Trump's infrastructure priorities, congresswoman says", "Maloney: Second Ave. subway is a priority for Trump", "Sneaking a Peek at the Second Avenue Subway Line", "2nd Ave. The current plans for Phase 3 are as such: at 55th St an island platform station, north of which two sets of tracks split with one continuing to 72nd St and the other curving east to connect to the 63rd St Tunnel; south of 55th St the line is two tracks with island platform stations at 42nd St, 34th St, 23rd St, 14th St, and E Houston St; between 9th St and 20th St is planned for an additional two non-revenue tracks outside the revenue tracks for storage. I love your creative way of doing this. The Second Avenue Subway has been in the works for nearly a century, and New Yorkers shouldn't expect it to be completed any time soon. Not to mention how the gauge of all southern railway lines was changed to standard gauge in a SINGLE weekend during the 19th century ) Connecting Canarsie and Flushing lines in Manhattan would certainly be easier– both physically and politically– than the harebrained scheme to send the Flushing Line across the Hudson to New Jersey. The line has had many setbacks since it was first planned in the 1920’s. -Finally, add 2 S.A.S. But that adds cost and would leave Williamsburg Bridge useless. The point of my plan was to rearrange things to give riders more options for the least cost. Here’s how we can change that. ... such as the $6.9 billion Second Avenue Subway Phase 2 or $1.5 billion Metro North Bronx East Penn Station Access projects. 0002, Work Order No. This frees up capacity on 6th Av to be used to serve Williamsburg; the express tracks at 2nd Av Station were built for a future tunnel to Williamsburg but the service could be reimagined for cheaper. While the Second Av H does cover it and serves Midtown, it is more deserving of a Super-Express Bypass to the Rockaways to provide direct service to the East Side than a QBL. The third track would be installed, and between Cypress Hills and Broadway Junction, the express track would bypass these stops by going over Jamaica Avenue. At Hammels Y it will go towards Beach 116th St. Physically no. Your proposal only replaces one long Local with another. The proposed stops @ 116, 106, and 96 Sts make perfect sense given the way the Q is now (especially 106 St — the only wide E/W street between 96 and 116 St on the East Side of Manhattan). Can’t imagine how this idea popped into my head — but how about building additional railways above the streets…. The 6th Av Line was designed to be integrated into the IND system with connections to the existing 8th Av, Queens Blvd, Crosstown, and Fulton St Lines. Phase 1, with new stations at 72nd Street, 86th Street and 96th Street serving the Q train, is currently under construction. And the tunnels you are proposing would be so complicated that they’d actually make service worse with all the merging. Second Ave. Sagas recently posted an updated subway map for the future when, and if, the first phase of the 2nd Avenue Subway is opened, and the W train restored.. Not to mention the cost of it all for at best a 20% increase in capacity. Subway", "MTA Capital Program Amendments Renew. The current transfers to 2nd Av require riders using multiple stairs and long corridors all because planners are too scared to design their stations properly, even if it means more disruptive construction. Service on the Broadway elevated, now used by B/D trains would terminate at Broadway Junction (or possibly Atlantic Av for an easier cross island transfer). -The W will follow the H until Woodhaven Blvd, then follow the R as the express full length up to Flushing-Main Street. This train will be the H train, running from WTC to Jamaica Center, via the express. I’m also suspect of the geology in the area as to how much could be built underground. Second Avenue Subway Map This map shows the full length Second Avenue Subway. The Second Avenue Subway's first phase was completed on New Year's Day of 2017. Without them it hardly makes sense to extend the line further north since it would require riders transfer from express trains to local trains when they could just stay on the express via Lexington Av. The current plan for 2nd Av was finalized in 2004 (with adjustments as construction costs rose) with Phase 1 opening 12 years later. Just north of Court Sq (G) a double crossover can be installed and on the Manhattan bound tracks approaching Queens Plaza station the single crossover can be upgraded to a double. The H can handle 63rd, but have it run via 6 Av and 63 St super-express bypass such as in your futurenycsubway2016 map. Essex St Station would be altered so that the westbound platform and track is swapped allowing access to the center track (see diagram); this would allow for a new shuttle service to run off hours between Broad St and Essex St. B/D trains could now operate over the Williamsburg Bridge replacing the J/M/Z service; D trains to Broadway Junction and B trains to Metropolitan Av. So, I just kinda wanted to know. Jamaica would also have dual 6th, 8th Av, and Nassau service. I would include stops at Fleet Street, Metropolitan Avenue, Union Turnpike, Jamaica Avenue, Atlantic Avenue, and Liberty Avenue. Yes, it does provide Midtown Manhattan service, but the Atlantic LIRR Branch can be used for a direct, fast, super-express service. Why did you end the Q, & T trains at Saint Nicklas Avenue when you could continue it to Broadway 🎭 With a Conection to the 1. Well, the Rockaways doesn’t have much ridership when compared to other areas of the city(such as Court Sq). Phase 1 and 2 lack express tracks due to the limitations of the tunnels built in the 1970s. The bare bones plan wastes the potential that a new trunk line provides. Will there be a FutureNYCsubway Version 6 (just asking). In 1967 the Chrystie St Connection was the largest of these changes and originally was designed as the southern end of the 2nd Ave Subway. The reason I don’t have a station at Broadway-125 St is that the tail tracks need to be long enough to handle close to 30tph. Have the line run via Third Avenue and Park Avenue in the Bronx before turning east via Pelham Parkway to Co-Op City. While cost-effective, I am not sure that it is the best idea to have the W run via Fulton Street. Michael Horodniceanu, who was president of MTA’s Capital Construction division from 2008 to 2017, oversaw much of the first phase of the Second Avenue subway construction. There would be a transfer at Grand St so riders coming from Brooklyn could reach 2nd Av and a branch to Queens via the new 63rd St Tunnel planned as a super express line out to Forest Hills. Leaving the Fulton St express tracks fallow just seems like a waste. The two local tracks continue on to the decommissioned Court St Station (home of the NY Transit Museum) and plans from the 1930s called for using these tracks to connect to the 2nd Av Subway. Well, the LIRR Atlantic Branch is existing infrastructure…. You can have some trains go via Second Avenue if a connection between the Broadway local tracks and the 63rd Street Line is built using the trackways that were intended for a line to the Upper West Side. On the northern end, I would not have a 125th Street Crosstown. While this will provide some much-needed relief on the Lexington line, it doesn't truly solve the problem: a dearth of subway access east of the entire length of Lexington Avenue. Stress Loop's Advantages", "Discontinuance of service Second Avenue elevated line", "Manhattan East Side Transit Alternatives (MESA): Major Investment Study/Draft Environmental Impact Statement, August 1999", "TWO 'EL' LINES END TRANSIT SERVICE; Part of Ninth Ave., First in the World, and Second Ave. Mark Last Runs PASSING IS NOT MOURNED American Woman's Club Holds Wake in Jubilation Over Cessation of Noise", "A Museum-Quality Car for a Subway Yet Unbuilt", "$500,000,000 VOTED FOR 2D AVE. While cost is on everyone’s mind there is at least momentum to get Phase 2 built. But the point I’m trying to illustrate is that the current plan only helps residents along the east side of Manhattan get uptown or downtown a little better. That is, unless you have some trains short-turning. Also, the J/W are redundant for running on Fulton due to heavy underusage. The D train should be hooked to the Atlantic Branch and run to Jamaica Center, while the A/C diverts from the Atlantic Branch at Woodhaven Blvd and serves the Rockaways, except the A would utilize the severed express tracks, running express from Atlantic Av to Broad Channel. That is the ideal. It is with this as a guide that present subway planners need to rework the future of the 2nd Av Subway so it can make a larger impact on the subway network as a whole. I just don’t understand why this is necessary. Their mentality is that the crowding on the Lexington Av Line is worst along the Upper East Side and that south of 63rd St there are more options for riders and less need for a new trunk line. Also the concourse line simply does not have room to install a fourth track, and that requires the demolition of many stops, as well as closing the entire line just to allow for this fourth track. I’ve been following– and proposing– future NYC subway lines since– well– since before you were born. H trains now run down 6th Ave and V trains down 2nd Ave. V trains would take over from the B as Brighton Beach express but would face a bottleneck on Queens Blvd. As much as I like that part, I have some problems with this plan. In terms of W service, what would be the TPH during rush hours. It would necessitate 2nd Ave being built and if 2nd Ave is built then just extend the 6th Ave express to Jamaica instead. This was the major idea.i wanted to get out and to show off the new map. Jaded New Yorkers, exhausted by nearly a decade of construction work, made their way down through the new stations to marvel at the accomplishment. 2nd Av need not take up all traffic from Lexington Av, just enough. The SAS is often cited as a particularly egregious example of bureaucratic red tape and government ineptitude. Phase 1 of the Second Avenue Subway opened in 2017 — just three stations of a planned 16 total. Another issue I have concerns the BMT Jamaica Line. . The same cannot be said for Phases 3 and 4. As for the A, it should maybe be kept on Fulton, however if it is rerouted, the express tracks between Bway Jct and Euclid would be unused, and it could be used to store trains. It usually takes 5-6 minutes to get from Union Tpke to Continental. All the problems for this can be found in the 2004 FEIS. Think of the V as more like an extra rush service to use up any existing capacity. (Yikes!) Why wouldn’t the 2nd Ave Subway run the entire route of 2nd Ave? DTFT60D1400017 . Built to replace the 6th Ave El, which kept running above as construction took place, the subway had to be built around three existing lines including the Hudson & Manhattan Tubes (today the PATH) which were already running below 6th Av. This would be a separate project in and of itself in that it would require expanding the Broadway El stations for longer cars as well as rebuilding the Myrtle-Broadway interlocking to allow for more service; all of this would be a far cheaper alternative for expanding service to Bushwick and Bedford-Stuyvesant than building a new subway. Vs are just F trains via 53 St and Culver Exp. Construction took 5 years and cost $59,500,000 in 1940, $1,034,783,763 in today’s dollars (based on conversion from https://westegg.com/inflation/). Mobs of riders transfer at Broadway Junction. "Full text of "Metropolitan transportation, a program for action. The EIS looked at just one use of the Centre St Subway which I agree isn’t great because of the extreme curves. New York, New York . The point here is the build the little connections first rather than a whole project. The NYC Subway is littered with poor planning mistakes which have hampered service ever since; we need not make the same mistakes. Originally there was the option to connect 2nd Av to the Centre St Subway at Bowery Station but the proximity of the station to where the 2nd Av tunnels would be built would mean that the station couldn’t be used (and most likely would have to be demolished) and that the existing curves in the tunnel would be so tight that it would force 2nd Av trains to slow down considerably. 3) I think you can forget about the availability of the former LIRR tracks in Queens (with the Queensway Rail Trail a virtual certainty). These exits are usually located roughly halfway between stations, […] On December 31, 2016 the first phase of the long awaited 2nd Ave Subway opened from 63rd St/Lexington Av to 96th St/2nd Av. Currently engineering work is being done along with utility relocation for Phase 2. 55th St is a bit of a misnomer since it will most likely have an entrance at 57th St but the reason for locating the station further south than, say, 59th St is due to the need for the junction with the 63rd St Tunnel. The H is way too long running from Rockaway Beach to Brighton Beach. I’m interested into why you have the E going back to being local east of 71st. PMOC Contract No. Find local businesses, view maps and get driving directions in Google Maps. First of all, I love how you used your track map to make this plan. Every time I take the train, I am woefully dreaming of a day when it would be a one-seat ride. The Queens Blvd service well never be perfect. Basically what I mean is by building strategic routes through Queens and Brooklyn you wouldn’t have to go all the way into the city to go out and existing choke points could be alleviated at the same time. This would be simply to assist the L train with ridership, and add to the capacity in North Brooklyn getting across the river, and to link Union Square and points North to the Eastern Districts. Finally, in Queens, the addition of a 2nd Av train on Queens Blvd and the reduced need for the M line means that service can be better adjusted along the Queens Blvd Subway as well as the addition of the Rockaway Beach Branch. The trip from Jamaica to lower Manhattan is too long via the J, even during rush hour. I’ll probably add that to an updated map. They would both terminate at Rockaway Park-B 116th St. Now if you combine the plans in this post and my plans in tis comment, and I think we could see so many more riders on the 8th,6th,2nd,and Broadway Lines. The Second Avenue line is on this map, which was included in the MTA ’s board-meeting minutes on Wednesday. Your proposal mainly relies on existing trackage for potential extension, so using the Atlantic Branch would make much more sense. Riders can still transfer at Bleecker St-Broadway-Lafayette St for the 6 which will see less traffic due to 2nd Av. If you are going to keep this service pattern, the center tracks should be orange. I hope to show that with strategic connections the 2nd Ave Subway can have a wider ranging impact on the system as a whole. With the current tunnel lengths and the angle at which the Centre St tunnels turn, I assume this would not be entirely possible, however, you brought up a situation involving the same tracks. It would also incorporate the plan with the abandoned LIRR line, and the Flushing connection. I would have Phase 4 of the Second Avenue Subway built with a new tunnel under the East River, connecting to the Fulton Street Line without using the Court Street station. Even riders in South Brooklyn want 6 Av service, so this is why the M should not be eliminated because even if the B or D get diverted, the M could be used to replace B/D service in South Brooklyn. C will continue non-stop to Jamaica. But due to the location of Phase 4 the new line won’t allow for transfers to any downtown stations with access to Brooklyn. The 2020-2024 capital plan will invest a whopping $40 billion in subway and buses alone, which includes fully funding the long-awaited second phase of the Second Avenue Subway. 2nd Av trains would take over from the B/D with the planned T train taking over the D via 4th Av-West End to Coney Island and a second 2nd Av train, what I’ve labeled the H train in my map, using the 63rd St Tunnel to Queens, taking over the B to Brighton Beach. First, replacing the M is not good because Queens Blvd Local riders won’t have 6 Av service at local stations. The first plan for 2nd Ave-QB I had had H trains running close to 15tph and V trains at 10tph. Subway Plans", "MTA Capital Program 2015-2019: Renew. It’s suburban out there and that’s what some people like so the density doesn’t support more stations. But a connection would be made. I also considered a third track on Jamaica and I think it’s a very good idea if it could be engineered. Expand. At Broadway Junction this new local service would allow for a branch off to replace the BMT Jamaica Line elevated structure along Fulton St and Crescent St. Again, it does provide Midtown Manhattan service, but a majority of riders also want direct Lower Manhattan service. However, if necessary, the Montague Street Tunnel could be used, but Nassau Street should NOT be used. Provisions were built into the line for future integration with the 2nd Av Line as well (which was built as part of the 63rd St Tunnel and is in use today by the F and Q trains). Combined with a probable increase in Q service, how would this many trains go through DeKalb Avenue Junction? DTFT60-09-D-00007 . It’s unclear when work will be completed on Phase 2, if ever. Knowing how similar multi part projects have gone in the past (IND Second System, 1968 Program for Action) it’s wise to assume that some sections may not be built. If the Q is extended further up SAS, as it should, it would need to have its TPH increased. Is it possible to extend the G to Forest Hills-71 Av? SUBWAY DELAYED TILL '86‐AS COSTS SPIRAL", "2d Ave. Tunnelers Push On, Despite Potential Futility; Proposal by Beame", "WORK IS STOPPED ON SUBWAY LINE; City Lacks Funds to Finish Part of 2d Ave. Project", "The Bond Passed. But from your proposal, it seems it is just a waste of money because it won’t alleviate crowds and will cause a lot of congestion in Queens, Manhattan, and Brooklyn. On the Second Avenue line, too, the stations, which account for most of the cost, are lavish structures with huge mezzanines. Don’t see any reason why 30 tph can’t be achieved @ a terminal point WAY UNDER the elevated # 1 train (would trml have to be built around 500 ft or more east of Bway to prevent vibrations to present elevated structure as construction goes on?). 1972 - 1975 Federal funding granted to begin Second Avenue Subway but fiscal crisis in 1975 put project on hold. It does almost nothing for riders from Queens and Brooklyn, to say nothing of the Bronx. The Centre St Subway has some of the lowest ridership numbers and those who use it often transfer to uptown trains anyway. A will transfer from Atlantic to the Rockaway Beach Branch and serve all stations from Liberty Ave, Aqueduct, Howard Beach and all local stations to Far Rockaway. Also freed up is the capacity along the 6th Av local, now used by the M train, which can now be used for express service along the Culver Line (labeled the V train in my map). The N would run via the Queens Bypass and the Port Washington Branch via a short elevated connection at Queensboro Plaza. I don’t like how you are severing the connection between Sixth Avenue and the Manhattan Bridge. The second plan reworks it by also having the R via 63rd St so each line could run at 12tph. 7 Av will become a major bottleneck, and there will also be a lot of merging delays. Then You have to look at the changing demographics in Bed Stuy and Bushwick which is demanding more midtown service since the M was rerouted. A great redesign I fear the city won’t even consider. Since there will always be more riders headed to Manhattan that needs to be the first priority. At some point. What you are suggesting is far more involved, complicated, and expensive than just connecting the tunnels we have and extending the platforms. DC-27-5115, Work Order No. The letters O and I are too easily confused with the digits 0 and 1, respectively. The transfer to the elevated station would require long elevators and most likely an auxiliary building to support the transfer. When the MTA was created in 1968 it was a state agency so their onus for city planning was reduced. I could be wrong tho. What may come as a shock to riders is that the MTA does not actually see the last two phases as a priority. The more I think about it the more I reconsider the Broadway terminal. W trains would probably remain the same since you’d also have the addition of J trains and C trains would pick up the express slack. Service past Broadway Junction would need to be altered as well due to the curves at Crescent St and would involve a third project to add capacity along the IND Fulton St Subway. TO RUN BENEATH 2D AVENUE Proposal in Tentative Form Is Approved by 34th Street Midtown Association. I just don’t see why you badly want the J/W to go that way when it is redundant. All local stations south of Canal St would be abandoned, which really isn’t the worst thing. There is also no physical connection between the two lines at 7 Av today, and a new switch would have to be installed. The R will then follow down the track up to Flushing-Main Street to terminate with the 7. At just 1.6 miles, with just three new stations, the second phase of the Second Avenue subway would be Planet Earth’s most expensive subway line on a per-mile basis – by far. There should be an express on that line. What this means in reality is that we plan on building the most expensive subway in the world that will help far fewer New Yorkers than it possibly could all because a state agency prioritizes a narrow definition of service over the needs of the total system. What is needed is to design Phase 3 to be as lean as possible but also allow for future expansion for the addition of express tracks and provisions for a new tunnel to Queens should the need arise. The G might be able to fit into Forest Hills again as well. If the 2nd Ave Subway is not designed correctly then it will be the most expensive mistake since ramming highways through dense cities. Here you would lower TPH on the E and F, for 12 TPH for each service. As a longtime reader of your site, I wonder what happened to plans for the triboro RX line? While this is all doable the question remains why? Agrees to Station At 96th St. on 2d Ave. Line", "Rockefeller and Lindsey Break Ground for 2d Avenue Subway", "GROUND IS BROKEN FOR 2D AVE. LINK; Downtown Subway Section Begins With Ceremony Led by Lindsay and Ronan Projects Are Listed Interest in French Train", "Beame and Wilson Man the Jackhammers To Start 4th Segment of 2d Ave. This allows for the Fulton Street line to potentially have connections to the Broadway and Fulton Street lines. Would there still be a track connection between the Jamaica Line and ENY Yard? Subway; A 1920's Project Some See No Alternative Rush Hour Still Jammed Headache for Neighbors Completion Set for '75", "2D AVE. Are those tracks used regularly by ANYBODY? This plan seems needlessly convoluted. SUBWAY LOOP TO LINK 125TH AND 34TH STS. A and C will be the expresses that will run from Bwy Jct to the Atlantic LIRR corridor. The costs for Phase 3/4 will be huge due to the complexity of the project but it is far worse to design something ineffective because it will be cheaper than to make a greater investment that will return more dividends to the city in the long run. G might be needed anyway if the 7 could be adjusted given ridership demands with... Require digging under the northern end, I would include stops at Fleet Street, Metropolitan Avenue, a. By email would convert Woodhaven Boulevard to an express station 55th and 42nd Streets one! It out because I saw the costs adding up and ridership is the best idea to it! 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